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2006-05-01 [raza]: You think it'd still be art? mmh, i don't think so, but that's not the debate. ;) Oh yes, true it's not only random words, but indeed, i think using exactly a method that is such original, that method make the thing become art. i mean, someone who paint use the same method, but, it's not "because it's painting" that it's art. But a dada-method poem is art because it's a dada poem, do'nt you think? And personaly i don't think that the why is totaly sufficient... When we see Art, there is something more than the purôse of the artist behind, i mean, maybe an art piece allow people to find something which is inside them, that some art, closed to the majority, can't make it for everyone. It's..
2006-05-01 [raza]: .. not understand the piece, but feeling something that is inside us. But maybe people that don't understand this art have just boredom inside...(that i don't think, of course.)
2006-05-01 [iippo]: The dada-poem isn't art just because it's done that way. It makes an intellectual point about the state of art, the supposed randomness, about authorship, about the way chance affects our lives, etc.. things that dadists believed in. The same method can be used to make other points. I didn't quite get the other part, about When we see Art, there is something more than the purpose of the artist behind...? Can you expand this thought?
2006-05-01 [raza]: Mmh, surely Dadaist believe it. Aw, damned, me and this english. Erhm, when you are in front of Art, and you look at it. So maybe you'll find the artiste's purpose. But not only. We find something else, that make us think, about something that is inside us. That's maybe the artist wanted us to do, but somethimes, that's something else. That may make us think about something else. Behing each piece of art, there are a part of ourselves. So if the person looks at it, and think "nothing" and that don't make the person move inside, if you see what i mean? erhm.. i hope you see. So if the person don't move inside his mind, just found the artist purpose, and then, nothing. In great art, there is a
2006-05-01 [raza]: ...part of ourselves i mean. It's like a strange miror.
2006-05-01 [iippo]: Ah, very interesting. Very wise. I like the way you put it as "when you are in front of Art, and you look at it" - there is a notion that art has an aura, especially old art. What the physical painting has been through, how it has been touched by the artist and all the other people who have touched it, the specialness of the original. And it is a fact that viewing a reproduction ina book or on the computer screen is like watered down wine -- nowhere near the experience of standing in front of the real painting, so it's very likely that what you say is true, that the real thing reflects the person. A funny thing that happened in a gallery: the guide asked us what we saw first when viewing...
2006-05-01 [iippo]: ...the painting, and someone said "well, her back and her... bum" and she lowered her voice when she said bum, as if not wanting to upset the prestige in the gallery... XD This painting ---> http://keptar.
2006-05-02 [raza]: I'm glad you agree with me. :-) You find better words to express what i thought! ^^ The aura. :) How didn't i think about this word? i knew it, it's the same in french, lol. It's true that viewing a piece of art for real is not at all the same that seeing it on the internet, or in a book... Funny story, maybe this person knew that it as a part of herself, and that it was something, erhm "intime", deeply attached to her... Maybe?
2006-05-02 [iippo]: The aura is a common notion in art, and a lot of artist take it to themselves to "fight it". Like in printmaking, it is difficult to tell what is the original, when the printmaker can keep making equally original copies. And some artists make a reproducable piece, then destroy the original to kill the aura.
2006-05-02 [raza]: O.o really? what a strange idea. i never heard about that. Aura is something inherent in the art work, and it's a part of the art, don't you think? O.O
2006-05-02 [iippo]: As long as the piece in question is the original. Imagine the aura on Mona Lisa - all the people who have ever stood in front of it or touched it, or the parts of it's history (where was it for the first time, was it stolen, how did it come back etc...). A poster of Mona Lisa doesn't have that aura. The riddage of aura goes hand-in-hand with the art to the people -idea. So art wouldn't be this high and mighty institution with its auras of prestige and the elite and the canon of good art -- they want art to be accessible to all, and demolishing the aura helps in that. You can view the image without the mirror-effect you mentioned, without being overwhelmed.
2006-05-02 [raza]: But if this artist want to make art accessible to all, and at the same time, the art is totaly closed to all, i mean, there are too trends so: some artist that want art be accessible to all, and the others, that make this art that is not understandable by the majority. So it's really strange, and maybe people will be lost? If an artist make something unaccessible to people but try to destroy the aura, it's a bit, absurd? Or maybe it was the aim of the manipulation?
2006-05-03 [iippo]: Hmm, maybe the artist doesn't think that the majority wouldn't understand his art (it is probably very clear to himself), quite the same way that some people say or do things they think are obvious, when others have no idea what he's on about. I reckon that all people have the capability to understand any piece of art if they are willing to give it the chance and spend the time. And there's no shame in asking someone (museum intendent, the artist, discuss in the internet, read artist's statement). But then again, some people prefer to tear down rather than understand, to abuse other things and people, rather than to discuss it. It is very common. And not everyone find it worthwhile.
2006-05-03 [raza]: yeah, everybody can understand but there is conditions, so it's not so easy. (i never say that i didn't agree.) But now we touch another problem, that people must be "educated" to art, if nobody gives the keys, it's nonsense. So Art can't be universal with tis conception, don't you think? If we need three books and 45 opinions to understand art, where is the universal side? In this book, in the artist voice, it's just interpretation
2006-05-04 [iippo]: It is universal. Everyone has the capability to understand, that's what I said. Everyone is able to look and think and make a meaning for themself, make an interpretation
2006-05-04 [raza]: Mmh, yes i agree with you that everybody can understand and those who don't are just people who don't want, but if we need, to understand, something else than us, it can't be really called "universal", don't you think? personaly i don't think that we really understand something in a piece of art if we just ask to someone else, we must find the answer in ourselves, do you see my point of view? O.o'
2006-05-04 [iippo]: That's exactly what I am saying. If you take the time, you can do it. Anyone can. The result may be different from others, and if you care enough, you can find out what others thought of it too, thus finding out new things about it. If you don't want to take the time to think about it, you have to option of a) asking someone or reading about it somewhere else, or b) ignore it, say it's impossible to understand or that it means nothing, go home and have a beer. As much as the viewer gets involved, the more the art means to that person. Just because the viewer doesn't bother, doesn't mean the art means nothing.
2006-05-05 [raza]: Oh ok i didn't understood. ^^ Sorry... I didn't get the "if you don't want to take the time to think about it idea... Sorry... ^^ Ok so we agree. cool! (I like your kind of humour by the way, about have a beer. lol)
2006-05-05 [iippo]: This has been one of the most interesting conversations I've ever had in ET. :)
2006-05-05 [raza]: Oh! ^^ thank you very much, it's the same for me, nice talking with you! :)
2006-06-30 [Tails Of the Revolution]: Impressive. I'd never thought about this style of art like that before. Opened my mind a lot. Thanks. ^_^
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